Hack & Grow Rich Episode 110: Trust? Lie To Me

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, shaheen, trust, Bart, book, called, big, India, business, clarity, deal, friends, micro-expressions, vouch, stereotypes, happen, talk, person, lie, world

00:06

Hey, welcome to the hack and Grow Rich podcast. My name is Bart Baggett. I am your co-pilot on this journey into the mind of more wealth and more success. Now the genius behind this podcast and the founder of the Amazon mastery course author of billion is Shaheen, Cheyenne. And in this episode, we're gonna go deep, deep into the concept of trust. We're gonna take a look at psychopaths and narcissists. And we're gonna have a sincere conversation about can you really trust anyone in business or life? Shaheen? Take it away. Yeah, thanks, bar. Good to see you, bud. How are you doing? It's been a great weekend. And this is my favorite part of the weekend, getting to chat with you and talk about interesting books and things we've read, and concepts you just don't hear every day on the news. Yeah, that's true. And for those of you guys who may not know Bart or his work, Bart is an author and an inspirational coach, one of the most interesting guys in the room always and I know that Bart has a book that has gotten a lot of buzzes, especially lately, we've had a lot of people calling in and emailing and messaging us about it. But what's the title of your book, my favorite book that kind of relates to this topic is called the success sick Secrets of the rich and happy Success Secrets of the rich and happy My face is on the cover. And these days, since I don't really need the money, I just give it away. Like if you go to get Bart's book, calm like it's there, you get barse books is free. And so I want you to have these tools that have that I know that you don't need Shaheen, but the rest of us still need to be wealthier, to be happier to be healthier to be fitter. And those are the kind of my 400-page treatise on that topic. So Bart, before we start, can you give us one secret of the rich and happy whatever you want to go with? As far as what you feel right now is the most powerful one. Well, the thing that pops to mind, because I spent a lot of pages in that book talk about personality, is that if you can cultivate some personality traits of winners, like determination, high self-esteem, and confidence, that will take you a long way through all the challenges you're going to have as an entrepreneur. And if you have those issues, like fear of criticism, or fear of rejection, and you don't handle that in some way, it just come back and bite you over and over and over, not just in business, but in your relationships, too. So yeah, if you've never had a personality test, or, you know, Myers Briggs, like all those tests are really useful. And we'll be talking a little bit about that tonight because we're in talks about narcissists, or not personalities. And, you know, some of the tools I've learned almost 30 years ago still served me very well. When I have to ask the question, do I want to get in the business? This person does want one, right? This guy check, do I trust this guy? to rehab a house? Like I asked these questions, and that's what we're gonna talk about today. Yeah, it seems particularly in that industry, in real estate and contractors, in particular, we always say, you know, it's they must have come from the planets, or athon or something because they are all mutants. There's something about that business of real estate construction, particularly residential construction, where you know, you're gonna stick your hand into something, and you might get a snake that doesn't bite, or you might get a scorpion, you just don't know. Yeah, and it's interesting. I had a conversation with the contractor recently because my neighbor was doing some work. And she said, this case, great. And look at what he's doing. I said, you know, what referrals good, and we're gonna talk about that, like, if you have to someone that you know, trust them, that's like one mark in the right direction. And so he was telling me all this stuff to do. And I said, let me ask you a question. How many rentals Do you own, fully expecting him to say zero? And he goes, Oh, I own 14 units in Memphis and another 26 buildings and this and all of a sudden, I'm like, Okay, now you have my attention. You actually are an owner, not just a contractor. And so that was the first step of like, okay, I might hire this guy. She, you know, might. I love that? I love that. And there are good ones. I have to say I have found them but they are few and far in between. But the same question I asked. I did that did this house in Texas, during COVID. And my mom's like, I just don't think you're gonna make any money. It's the middle of COVID. And it's gonna be terrible. Oh, my friend Jackie works at the school. He says no one will ever rent that house. And I said, Mom, I said, How many? How many houses jack own? I don't think he owns any. So he actually told me he was you're gonna lose money in this house. No. unlevel rent there. I said, jack, how many houses Do you own? He said zero. I said, Okay, thank you for your input. But I'm gonna go ahead and just rehab this house. And by the way, that house went for double the rent and that part of the neighborhood great decision, it was fine. But the point is, you have to take your own counsel and even your mother's fear and somebody's advice. If they're not doing what you're doing. Don't listen to them.

05:00

Yeah, authority. So you trust, authority, and experience over most other things? Yeah. Well, here's what I don't trust is my feeling. And this is interesting because I used to trust my feelings or my gut feelings. No, but I would say I'm a pretty good judge of character. But since I've been analyzing handwriting since I was 14, I realized that my feelings were never matched. What showed up in the handwriting is somebody charming, and somebody funny, and I'm like, Oh, my God, they're paranoid. They're narcissists or somebody that's kind of dull and not interesting. They may be the most intelligent of the ones with the least issues. So so that my experience, you know, as 100 analysts, and then I read Malcolm Gladwell, his book, I believe it's called a stranger, I pulled it up for us. And I really think that it's worth talking about. It's called talking to strangers. Now very all of Malcolm Gladwell, his book, he and he's a social psychologist, so not as much as an individual psychologist, but like sociology, so he takes patterns into consideration. So he'll look at all the research of hundreds and 1000s of people. And what he said was fascinating to summarize a very complex book, he says, even the FBI, even the people that are trained to spot liars, are incredibly inadequate at spotting deceit. And so if the FBI can't get it, right, what are the chances of you and me? Like, this is the takeaway from that book, and then his research was so overwhelming, I was like, you know, maybe I'm not as smart as I think I am Shaheen. If the FBI can't do it, how am I going to do it? Well, so you look at these big organizations bar, and these organizations have to systemize things to fall into people of all sizes. So when you do that, you can't tell them to go by your intuition, you could get that really dumb rookie cop, you know, the guy that barely squeezed through basic training, because his uncle was on the force, and then his uncle was on the force. And you just can't tell that guy to trust his intuition. Now you're gonna have another guy that is self-reflective, that is more experienced that has seen these situations happen before in the past. And it is in everybody's interest to go based on that guy's intuition. But when you are the FBI, or the CIA, or national security, or any of these big agencies, you have to create a one-size-fits-all system, you've got that big hotel bathrobe that's got to fit every single guest. So this is really good. So let's, you know, kind of start at the beginning. So for you guys who don't know, you know, I started my first company when I was in my early teens, 16 or so. And I got too close to a billion dollars in revenue before my 21st birthday.

07:54

And when you're young, and you make that kind of money, trust becomes a huge issue because you don't know who you can trust. You don't know if people want to be around you for your wealth for your fame to be around the buzz, or if people really want to be around you because they're really your friends. And you start questioning your friends and everybody you do business with. So let's rewind a little bit and talk a little bit about stereotypes, Bart? So this was a really interesting thing. I think you and I have talked about it. And you know, my wife, has a publicist who used to work for the United Nations used to work under Kofi Annan, who was what do you call the king poobah? at the United Nations? nations? Yeah, he was the general director, General, something something, whatever. But you know, it was big he was a big shot and my wife worked under him and really big on human rights, and she hates stereotyping. The problem is sometimes stereotypes are accurate, right? And moreover, you know, I think more than being harmful in a lot of cases. Because, you know, we all have stereotypes, right? I'm Iranian, we have the stereotypes of the guy that talks like these, and where's the gold and the perfume. And, you know, you've got a Kim Peele to do a really good couple of Arab guys in their show, which I think is really funny. By the way, guys, if you're watching this Persians are not Arabs, so you know, different. Okay, anyway.

09:24

So, you know, evolutionarily, there is a requirement for stereotyping. Why because we survived through patterns. Our brains developed in advance through pattern recognition, we learned and we survived by realizing, hey, that's something that could kill me. That killed the last guy, and I saw it happen, so that could kill me. And that prop pattern has been embedded in our brains for

09:57

year after year after year.

10:00

Since the dawn of human history, so we naturally gravitate towards stereotypical thinking, right? Even if you're the kindest person in the world don't have a racist bone in your body don't have a bigoted bone in your body, as I know, both you and I feel, you know, this, this way that you know, all people equal, all that stuff. And we have such a diverse range of friends from all areas of life. And, you know, we respect all humans and all aspects. But when you look at it from a biological standpoint, we all do have the tendency to stereotype regardless of if, when we are in social situations, we are politically correct and socially correct. And, you know, polite, we do think that way. And the reason for it is evolution, we've evolved to have that trait. It's not that anybody is born in one way or another as far as prejudice towards any particular group. But we just know that if we see something happen, that it could happen again. So we establish that pattern in our brains. And we continue believing that that pattern is real, right? So you know that a guy who owns real estate, for example, taking race and sexual orientation and all that stuff out of the picture, but you know, a guy who has done, who has owned real estate and rented it, you know, like a good builder. So the next time you meet a guy like that, you're like, hey, unless you're a contractor that has, you know, experience, renting properties, then I'm not interested in working with you, that is a pattern that you recognize that keeps you safe in the business of renting, or at least I'm not going to trust yet. And I think that's the key factor is, do we not trust it first, and wait for clues to begin the trust? Or do you trust people unconditionally, until you have clues that you don't know, in your example, what I realized was,

12:05

I'm going to, I'm going to go ahead and just quiz them about their experience because I don't want to take their advice if they're not smarter than me.

12:13

And if they haven't done more than me, then I'm not going to take their advice. Right. So so that is the key as far as like, when you're making a buying decision. I want to do a quote from Malcolm Gladwell, in his book talking to strangers, he says, You believe someone not because you have no doubts about them. Belief is not the absence of doubt, you believe someone because you don't have enough doubts about them. Which I love that quote, because he's like, basically, we want to trust until like, we get doubts in red flags. Now, he met me talking about a black cop and a white cop. He's like, maybe he's not going in that direction. But it's interesting, because he believes that like people are looking for reasons not to trust because of that what you're talking about, is this his DNA saying, we want to make sure that we're safe.

12:58

Yeah, you know, okay, so belief plays a big part in it. And that's super cool. I love Malcolm Gladwell, by the way, his revisionist history. Have you ever heard that podcast? I have not? I think I'll add that to my list. Oh, yeah. It's, it's amazing. It's It's insane. And you know, he, he's got a masterclass and the guy's really, you know, he's interesting to listen to. But I think one of the things I find most interesting about Malcolm Gladwell, maybe we should have him on this podcast, is that he is genuinely curious about other people. And he's like the most articulate human being in the world, and genuinely curious. And those two things combined, just make make him an explosive powerhouse. And then on top of that, he's an academic and a thinker. So, you know, he really comes up with some novel concepts where you're like, Wow, man, like, I love that. So he's a winner. So okay, so back to the point where we built these stereotypes. And understanding that trust is something that I think from what I'm hearing, you say, is something that at the very least we suspend, initially, in order to keep ourselves safe, right, so the goal is, you know, the two basic human emotions that drive all human action number one, you know, driving towards pleasure. And number two, the avoidance of pain and of course, the avoidance of pain being to a major degree, far more powerful than the gaining of pleasure and motivates people much more the avoidance of pain. So ultimately, we want to stay safe. We want to have the capacity to enjoy the greatest pleasure without suffering and the avoidance of pain, which is a lack of suffering. And so we get motivated by that. And we think, well, how can we trust because in general, wherever we're at establishes some level of homeostasis for us where we're like, okay, we're on a level field right now. So I don't want to lose

15:00

any money off the table, I'd like to take a step up the ladder. But I don't want to lose, I definitely don't want to lose anything. So now we are at the structure of trust, which is a really great place. So in business, right in the world of business, which I know a lot of you guys and gals get involved in business with other people, I think that's a big element of trust relationships. How do you know if you can trust that guy or that girl? How do you do it? Bart? How do you establish that you can trust somebody?

15:35

Let's, it's what a great question. I think it's it's, it's exactly what Malcolm Gladwell says, I give the benefit of the doubt to somebody, and I begin the relationship like I'll have unless they're holding a gun on me. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's go down the road. Let's have a couple of meetings, let's make all the assumptions that you're a trustable person. But secretly, I'm scanning for any reason to doubt them. Find out they're lying. I talk to their friends, I call their references like I, I asked them to trick questions as I did about the builder like I'm trying to find a reason not to trust them, even though I really want to like I want it to work out. And so for me, especially if it's a small risk, like buying something in a grocery store, I can afford the loss. So I don't have to investigate this, right? I'm gonna go hire a personal trainer, I can afford the $100 if it's a bad trainer, but do I want to go into business with someone like you, Shane, for a big long year, on a handshake? You know, I've known you for five years. So I've seen nothing about you, that would be a red flag. I had a business deal. Last year, it was a $5,000 pr thing. And I just didn't trust the guy. I felt it was creepy. his contract was weird. The arbitration was in Montreal, we're living in Los Angeles. And I'm like, I just, I think this is gonna go really poorly, man. But you know what I did, I went ahead and did it because I could afford to lose the 5000. And at first, it worked. And then it petered out. And the guy never called me back. And I was like, you know, I should have listened. But she, he, and I had the conversation. Can I afford to walk away from this? Hmm. Or if it wins, it's a big win. Give your head a situation like that, where you thought it was going to be a bad deal, but you did it anyway? Because you could afford it? Or do you always say no? How do you manage it?

17:19

So first off, I gotta tell you, you're the least Persian dude in the world. We start with this trust any persons that you'll ever meet, right, coming from Iran. We start with this trust, everything is this stress. You distrust the government, you distrust business people, you distrust everything, you just trust your own family, pretty much. I mean, there's really nobody to trust if you're Persian. And you know that Persians in particular have a very active distrust of anything governmental, right. So, you know, one of the most common scams, the IRS scams, where they're calling the old Persian grannies, you know, they're all petrified of, you know, the guy calling up, you know, being like, you know, with an Indian accent or wherever, you know, saying, Hey, I'm Steve Jones, you know, an agent with the IRS, and you know, it's a big panic and Persian cultures, but Okay, so how do I, how do I manage that? which I think was your question? Yeah. Yes. So I manage it with trust first, and then evaluate my losses, and then look for reasons to walk away.

18:24

Yeah, so I think, unfortunately, just kind of, from where I come from, I start with as either distrustful or neutral as I can be, which, you know, I think just comes historically, from, you know, just having lots of deals that I've done, I mean, I've done 1000s and 1000s of deals, and some have been spectacular and some have been not so great. So, if it comes through social proof, so one of the things that you know, I've always done and has always worked well for me, is if somebody within my network vouches, it's very different than refers, you will often hear me refer someone with the caveat that I haven't worked with them, but I've heard this person does this thing or that thing. But there are a handful of people that I will actually vouch for maybe a couple of handfuls, that I will say, Hey, I vouch for this person, that means anything happens with this person, you can come back to me. So I look for that same level of trust in my friends and my family.

19:33

Um, except on my father's side of the family, his his his friends and family just seem to want to rip everybody off. So I don't quite understand how that works usually, but I kind of will do the opposite. When it comes to my, my father's side of the family. But other than that, generally speaking, what I will do is like you I will look for somebody who will vouch

20:00

For them within my group First, if it's a big deal, right? If somebody is willing to vouch for them even outside of my group, I will say, Hey, have you done business with this person? Would you vouch for them? And then I just shut up and I listened to what that person says, do they stumble? Are they nervous? Are there some other issues and we can go into when we should, in the second half of this, some tools that our viewers and listeners can use today to start detecting deception? And not only that, to building trust, so that you're never lied to, and that you're always moving forward using the best information that you have. And that's really key. So now, if nobody vouches for them, just because I don't know anybody who vouches for them, I go back to where I found them and where they were, I was referred to them, right. And I will do like you the same kinds of online searches to look at these people. Now, here's something that you should know.

20:58

success leaves clues. And you and I have talked about this, if somebody is talking a big game unless they worked for the CIA, and even then you will find clues of their success, especially business people, if they have been in the business of any kind, there will be LinkedIn page, that will be a page about something they have done, there will be publicity, there will be people who know them, you will be able to find information about them. A because success doesn't happen overnight, even though we'd like it to. You know, there's a lot of those guys who look like they've gotten rich overnight, but it took them 20 years to get to that one day.

21:40

So success leaves clues, I think is very important. And then I do now follow my hunches most of the time, but not always. And if I am not following my hunch, I will take out insurance. And that insurance could be in a business deal. That, okay, we're going to do this deal, you want to do business with me, I want to do business with you. But since we don't know each other very well.

22:09

Let's make a payment due upon the successful completion of your work.

22:15

I will put caveats like that. And even if they don't go along with it, it's a good test to see why they're not going along with it. So if a deal feels really bad Bart, like if from the get-go, their struggle and friction

22:33

the old school of thought. And this is something actually that our friends store while the trick to money guy taught me an old school of thought is let's breakthrough lets you know, whatever it is, we'll smash the wall and get to the other side. But the new school of thought, and I think it works a lot better is if you're just not flowing to stop and pause and examine what that is, and take that as a sign. You don't know what it is I recommend not defining it right. We're not psychic, or psycho. Hopefully not psycho, but definitely not psychic. So we just sit back and not define it and allow the information to come out to define it itself. So what we're going to do is we're going to say, Hey, I don't know either way, but I'm feeling a lot of pushback. This might not be the right deal. This might not be the right job. For me, this might not be the right girl or guy for me, this might not be the right situation for me. Let let me take a minute and just pause, what's the call cost? What is the cost of taking a pause? Oftentimes, nothing. And so so many times what happens. One of my mentors taught me this, the pressure builds up inside us. And we want to release that pressure so we can feel good. But the pressure that's built in to make a deal happen to do something, you know, you've been pushing so hard, just push a little bit harder. Sometimes if you just wait, you will have a better outcome.

24:11

I like the idea of pausing, because usually one person's pushing the other one, and they have an agenda. So if they're desperate, and they're crisis-ridden, if they're broke, they're going to be really pushing to close something. And that's, that's a real red flag opposed to both people going, Hey, we don't need this to happen. But it'd be awesome if it happened. And then that becomes a much more pleasant engagement. I think the metaphor and you reference a bit of like dating is very similar here. As you go on the first or second date, if it's really, really difficult to get through dinner without insulting each other, like just walk away. Like it's too hard. Like you don't want to go out of your way to figure out you know, all these flaws of these individuals because it just maybe you. But the same thing if you're having these milestones that milestones these, you know

25:00

Challenges even the beginning, they're really going to come up what I consider one of one of the hacks Shaheen is that no matter who you're dealing with, including your family members, once you sort of making a deal, hey, this is what I think we're going to do, put it in writing and compare and say, Is this what we agreed on? Is a true story. I literally was buying a house from my family members. And about three weeks later, the price had changed. And I'm like, No, no, no, that's not what you said. And he's, absolutely I said that, and I thought, I can't get this in writing for my family.

25:34

But guess what he forgot? He forgot. And so now the deal is different. And you know, what is it a trust issue? Hate is a memory issue. Is that clarity. So I love to have crystal clarity. And I will literally put a piece of paper and say, Look, this is not legal. Now we're going to sue anybody over this. But just let's make sense. I'm going to do this, you're gonna do that. Let's just both sign it on today's date and see if we're, we're on the same page. And Shaheen would never have done that. What happens is they look at the page and go, That's not what I meant. Hmm, clarity. If that's not what you meant, now's the time to clarify it. So I love that hack. Get a piece of paper, put it in writing, ask them to confirm it. And then at that point, you'll find out whether they're trying to back out, or they're trying to sell you this, but only agree to this. Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is the clarity is really important. And that's interesting because I think and one of the books that we were going to discuss tonight, it's this obscure book written by this guy who's this weird occultist. I think he's since passed on his name was Chris hack. He wrote this book called The psychopaths’ Bible. And it's this bizarre book with all this bizarre stuff. But I love reading books that kind of gives you an insight into the way unconventional. People think and this guy wrote this book years ago and super interesting. But he talks about that, as you know, people that have some level of psychopathy actually will go in, and they like to ops speaking, I think is the word they liked your Ops, I think that's right, muddle up, muddled up obscure the deal, because then they can go back and change it any way they want. As he said, so I've done deals with super sharp business people where they're like, yeah, yeah, it's gonna be great. I'll be this, it'll be that. And I'm like, Alright, let's get it on paper. Exactly. Like you said, No, it's okay. You know, it is what it is. It's those deal points and whatever. And sure enough, you know, they came back, and it's always in their favor, what was remembered? And what was not, you know, and that's always a funny thing. I tell my wife, you know, because we have a fairly large house here in Venice, and there's always people fixing it and whatnot. And anytime steaks are made on the billing, it's, and it's often for repairs, and you know, things like replacing stuff. It's always in the favor of those companies. I'm like, I've never had a stake in a bill where they credited me $5,000. It's always in their favor. And similarly,

28:12

you know, with people who

28:16

gravitate towards the obscurity, as opposed to those who gravitate towards clarity. What I'm hearing you say is that there's greater trust, the closer you get to the clarity section unless you're the one who's holding all the cards and controlling all the magic.

28:36

Well, then you wouldn't want clarity if it but then they're just really working for you as an employee. So there may be a reason to be unclear if you're in a leadership position if you're going to go public. I mean, there may be that, but we're kind of talking about two people deciding to go into some kind of partnership. I think that's the general framework of the conversation. Yeah, if people are afraid to be clear, that means they either don't want to be held accountable, or they don't actually know what they're doing. The third kind is the worst kind. It's the sociopath. It's, it's the, you know, Jeffrey Epstein's of the world. It's thick. It's the Keith Allen Reynier. The guy who created the cult Nexium, like these is just people that know they're taking advantage of you. They know that the outcome is going to be bad. And they don't mind. I mean, if you look at Bernie Madoff, I mean, I, he talked about all the things we just discussed, Shaheen, Bernie Madoff, they all vetted each other through their Hollywood friends, everybody vouch for Bernie Madoff. And he went, What four or five, you know, 100 million dollars in a Ponzi scheme for 20 years, with the most elite people in New York. The only people who didn't get hurt by Bernie Madoff. Bernie Madoff was the people that were in the FTC going we don't have any records of this guy trading any stocks, like like, we can't find anyone to vouch for him within the real community. But in the Hollywood community, everybody's making money.

30:00

So yeah, unless you're dealing with a full-on narcissist, then you get one of those three things. By the way, thanks for recommending that psychopath Bible. That was most of my afternoon, I really went down that rabbit hole.

30:12

Yeah, that guy was really not he wrote a bunch of things he actually wrote under pseudonyms. But I remember researching his books before and just a super interesting dude. But you know, so in all fairness, you know, and I saw the Madoff movie, some people made money from Madoff, that's how a pyramid scheme works. And the people who got out early, actually made money. So interestingly enough, if you went to those guys and said, hey, how's this guy that Oh, yeah, it was great, you know, I invested 5 million I made 10 million I got out, I'm good. So you got to be careful even with that, too. So this is the thing you have to use all of your faculties, most important of which is logic and intelligence, like you're saying, you know, you will not get clarity, a lot of the time. So you have to seek out clarity and the way that you do it. So you know, we should go into the tools, I'm gonna do a little screen share here.

31:13

But the way that you do it is by using all these tools that are available to you, your intelligence, your resources, you know, the internet, there are all kinds of tools, especially nowadays, you know, there are very few things that can keep you from finding information on somebody if they're legit. So I love this series of pictures. So there's a guy, he is a professor, he is amazing. And the film lie to me, the series lied to me with Tim Roth was based on him, his name is Dr. Paul Ekman. And Paul Ekman and forgive me if I am not getting all the science perfectly, there are people who are huge fans of his and I'm a huge fan. But there are people that are a nerd like to the, to the nth degree about his silence. So I'm giving a much more general type of understanding. But one of the things especially when we go back to face to face, but even on zoom, that you can see this so Ekman, did research and found out that we all have these little things called micro-expressions, and they are broken down into six basic micro-expressions. And I think he's added Yes, there is a seventh microexpression that I think he added fairly recently. And we can look at that too. But these are present in all people, regardless of culture, sexual orientation, race, religion, all if you speak or don't speak, have these six basic micro-expressions. Now, what's the difference between a microexpression and a regular expression? Regular Expression takes time, right? So if I'm, this is one of the most pronounced ones, you know, this is Bart.

33:10

You're on mute, but that is I'm confused or not interested? contempt. Any time? Yeah, you have a lip in the corner, tightened and raised only on one side.

33:24

Like that content, that's one of my favorite ones, because it's the easiest to see. So micro-expressions Come on, according to Eggman, just four could be a fraction of a second that they come on. So it's something that you see in a fraction of a second. And he teaches actually, by the way, guys, if you want to go I've got no affiliation with Paul Ekman. But if you want to go on to his website, he's got a little mini-course. It's like 120 bucks or something. And it is spectacular. By the way. I've taken it, I do it, I love it. And it teaches you how to recognize these basic micro-expressions. So sadness, right, we're taught to see, you know, sad, right? Surprise, anger, disgust, and fear. And Ekman was brought in a lot by the government by all those three-letter agencies to watch videos. And moreover, he was hired, his agency was hired by all kinds of politicians, to watch other politicians and other people and to see if they were being truthful about what they were saying and what they were not. So he can get a whole video and analyze it and tell you where they're telling the truth and where they're not. So being able to read micro-expressions, you can check out Paul Eichmann's book emotions revealed, which is really a spectacular book. It's one of those things where I think it's a canon of human understanding. I think it's much more effective than body language because you got to remember he went to Papa New Guinea, where he had to find like,

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The one tribe that hadn't been contacted by anybody in the West so that they would be on untainted by other cultures that have been completely unaffected, right, he had to find the most primitive tribal people that had been completely untouched, and then go in there and do this anthropological study to see if they had these emotions. And his research came back. Yeah. So they concluded that every single human being regardless of those factors has these things with body language. This could mean something different, culturally, in a different cultures, right? Generally speaking, you can figure out it's, you know, one thing or another.

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In India, they say, Yes, I'll have a dry cleaning back. And regardless of whether they know you're gonna get your dry cleaning on time, you're absolutely never gonna get your dry cleaning. But they're going to say, Yes, I get my dry cleaning. So culturally, because I'm authoritative, they don't ever want to say no. And so you've got cultural things, which is so impressive that he went and said, I want to get out of the cultural, and I want to see are all human beings have in common? And so what I hear you saying is that Paul Eckhart said, you know, we're just trying to get something that applies to all human beings, all homo-sapiens regardless of their culture, which is different than what you would usually call body language. Is that correct? Yeah, nothing ever comes on time when you're in India, and I'll tell you a funny story. So, but when they lie to you, it makes you so annoyed you like just tell me the truth, either. It's not. Yeah, you know, today, tomorrow, and next week, it's Yeah, that's what we set. Right. That's what they do. Again, going away from clarity and towards obscurity. So I was in Delhi. And I was with a buddy of mine. And we had $10,000. And we had, I believe it was about eight hours to spend it. So I thought to myself, have I told the story before by the way barks. Alright, it's a brand new story. Yeah, I think stories are great. So well, I thought, Alright, guys, so here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna be and it was just me and my one friend. And we had an Indian guide. I said, Okay, so here's what we had to we got, like, we got to blend in, man, we got to look like the locals. So here's what we're gonna do find me a turban store. And you know, Reggie, what's his name? Something like that. He's like, okay, we'll take you to a turban store. And I said, we'll just get like, local clothing, and then people will leave us alone. My partner was an African man, this was not a good idea. So we go into the store, and we're trying on all kinds of turbans, and I'm like, Okay, this one's great. And he tried on one, and we're like, okay, that one's great. And we checked out, and we got the robe, you know, the thing that like flows or whatever, mind you, I didn't consider that we were both still wearing $300 Nikes. You know, I had a $5,000 watch. And, you know, I had really nice rebounds on me, you know, I did, those are, those were not things that occurred to me that Middle Eastern drug dealer, I look like a Middle East drug dealer, and it was my buddy looking. And as we walked out of the store, we realized that all the people have this little village town had been watching us the entire time. And there was a posse of, I don't know, 50 100 people, because you know how that works in India. Like, there's one guy changing a tire and like, 47 guys watching him, and you're like, what do you what are the rest of you guys do? That guy's changing the type of What about you, sir? What about you, they're all just standing around while the tire gets changed. So, you know, we had the posse of like, 50 people following us around, we're walking faster, trying to shake him off, and they're walking faster chasing us laughing. And the kids start following it was like, it's like one of those, you know, those duck videos where like, you know, one duck is walking, there's like, 100 behind him. And I was like, all right, this isn't gonna work. We ran into a restaurant, we took off all the turbans and stuff, and we dumped it. And then we went shopping. So back in the 90s, spending, you know, eight Grand 10 grand in India wasn't so easy. I mean, you know, things which, you know, you get a meal. The other thing is you got to bring them back. This ship is worth more than whatever you're buying unless this is really one big like 1000 pound boot I really wanted but I did the shipping is cheaper to buy it in Venice. Yep. Yep. Because they get it shipped on a container. Okay, so we'll make a long story short, so we do the shopping, all the negotiation, and all that's done. We've got all the stuff and we're like, you know what, but we've got How long do we have? We've got three hours left. Let's go to the override. The Oberoi is the nicest hotel in the world. I mean, gorgeous, beautiful has everything you imagine India to be. It's not the real India where you go in and you're like, you know, you see poverty you see all that. It's like what you see in the movies, right? You're expecting some lady to come out and be

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Doing Kama Sutra and like people throwing spices and colors and the music and it's all that stuff like that you would see in a movie about India. So we're like, let's go to the oboe, right the most expensive place right dinner is like I think in those days was like 40 bucks a person, which was like insanely high, but we're like, you know what, we did it. We bought all this inventory because, by the way, I had a ton of franchise ecstasy stores in those days. These and we had a big flagship store on Melrose.

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And, you know, we thought, Hey, we're gonna fill them with an inventory. So we had about 10, big trash bags full of inventory, and a few big chests. And so we leave this stuff in the holding area of the Oberoi, which is great. They had all of these guys and the big hats and whatever, come and take in, put it there and sit down and watch it and 20 and we ate and we drank and we ate and they had a show and there was music. And it was just it was beautiful. It was like after a day of being out was fantastic. So we're like, Alright, great. And we look at the clock, and oh my god, we've got 47 minutes to get to the airport, like three hours went like that. So we go outside to you know, a limo that's there. You know, all our stuff is loaded in and the guy's doing that thing, like and I'm like, dude, can you get us to the airport?

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He's like, No, sir. I cannot. So I'm like, Alright, so here's what we're gonna do. So we found another guy in the street. I handed him a $100 bill. Now mind you, this is a month's salary for this guy. Maybe more. I handed him a $100 Bill and I said, Come get us. Right, because they also don't like picking you up. They like to make it hard. It's a whole racket on how you get a taxi when you're in certain parts of India. So I gave the guy $100 bills that come get us the dude rushed over, grabbed all our stuff. Now we've got these 10 trash bags tied to the top of a city cab, the things in there and the guy's like, I can get you there, right. He's doing the next thing I can get you there. I can get you there barely spoke English. And so I said, But are you sure? He's like? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I said, Okay, so now we've got a trust issue. Because I don't trust this guy's gonna get us there on time. So, my partner's looking at me. I'm like, What do we do? So I take out another $100 bill. Right now mind you. This is like maybe two months, maybe more of this guy's salary.

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Cut it in half. I see him having a mini panic attack. I see.

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Balls of sweat falling from his head in this air-conditioned public taxi. I hand him half. And I say on time.
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Get the other half.

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He says Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Now I believe him now we have that trust. Because I know that he is going to do what's in his own best interest. Bart. I swear to you, I have never seen a human being drive so much on the sidewalk. This man. I mean, he lost three hubcaps trying to get us there. I mean, they were flying, he was going off curbs, I think three times we hit air over those speed bumps. I think two cops saw us and tried to chase us down but they could not get to this guy. And we get to the airport. And we have 17 minutes to spare. I think my partner had pretty much wet himself. Like I was just looking at him. And he was he knew he was dying in India. He was you know, doing this Hail Marys or whatever it was that he was doing.

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And so we get to the airport. And I give the guy the other half of the 100. And I gave him an extra 20 bucks. And he was like, you know, he was helping us offload it or whatever. And we walk in with 17 minutes to spare I am, you know, the happiest dude in the world. We are getting back home, this is going to be amazing. We've got the inventory. And the lady there. And this is something that a lot of our viewers might not understand. Sometimes people in these countries have an issue with people that are Iranian. And sometimes they have an issue with people that are black. And in this case, we were both so she did not give us the time of day until it was the time of our flight where she came in informed us that the flight had departed.

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And we were there at the airport. The next flight was in the morning. We no longer had our hotel, and we had all these bags of things and we were exhausted we had not rested a minute in the day. So what we did was we put the bags around us and like there were 50 guys around I gave everybody a little bit of cash to watch us. My partner had his back to one side. I had my back to the other side of this

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stuff. And we took turns dozing off until the morning and we got on that flight

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found out how to motivate your taxi driver. In India. That was how we motivated the taxi driver. Yeah, just for the record. If anybody and I have a lot of fans in India, this has been a loving conversation about some of the cultural flaws, and the hope you don't take any of this as serious criticism as much as a cultural observation. Okay, because Shaheen, I know you and I both have had wonderful experiences in India and when planned to go back as long as the episode did come back to bite us in the ass. Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I think it's one of the most fascinating places on earth with such a rich culture and spices. Oh my god, Indian spice you ever have like Indian food where you just don't want the spice to end. Like, that is one of the best feelings ever, where you get a properly spiced Indian meal. And I just don't want it to end. That's where Chai comes in. Because they give you try after because then the spice doesn't have to end.

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Yeah, I, you know, look like any culture. There are things I love about it. And there are things that I'm not so hot about. And I come from the third world. And I know that you've traveled extensively. So we can talk with a realness about this stuff. And you know, India, of all places in the world is really one of the most comedic places, despite, you know, all the adversity that a lot of people go through there.

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I remember the first time I gave a speech in New Delhi, my friend who flew me over there, said, Look, I am, and say, right now, they're not going to get any of your jokes. And I said, Well, that's just like normal. But a lot of times you don't get my jokes. He goes, No, don't expect them to say anything. Because remember, they're gonna nod yes or no. And I opened with a second they told me never talked about sex over here because it's this cultural, so pristine. But you guys have 1.5 billion people. So somebody in this audience is having sex, and they busted up laughing gene as it crushed it. And then the rest of the speech, they didn't laugh at one joke. They didn't get one reference. I got one good punch line out of my lecture in 1994. Let me give a hack on the trust issue real quick because before I know we're running out of time. This is a true story that happened just recently, as some of your viewers know, I'm a professional handling expert. They bring me into court. I'm respected as a court-qualified Henry expert. And so I have this client that hires me all the time because he represents car companies. And what happens is, somebody buys a car, and when something goes wrong within they're like, Hey, you sold me a bad car? And they're like, yeah, we sold you the car, you want it. And here's your signature. And so there's this guy who had like, 17 signatures on all these contracts. I mean, clearly, it's the same guy. But obviously, they need a handwriting expert to court. And in his signature, maybe his name was Joey or something. He had it, he had an O and it was something called a lying loop. And allying loop is a fundamental, basic little primary trade that I wrote my first book when I was 22, that says, Look, if you see this, this person has a fear of being authentic. They have a fear of telling the truth. And for some reason, they just don't feel safe, always being transparent. So you just can't trust these people off the bat. I've only been wrong once in 30 years on this trade. So I gotta tell you, as far as all the trades is 99.9% correct. So if you see that, it's going to be an issue I'll even share my screen and then I'll for those of you listening, I'll describe it pretty detailed, but I literally googled lying loops, Bart Baggett, just so you know how easy it is to find what I'm talking about. And this is all my products that popped up, like, here's my graphics card, the line loops, you know, the little book that I wrote, has prevarication as the word for lying. So if you see these double loops, that is secretive, to others, the secret of yourselves, and they have a fear of being honest. And so while we're definitely not going down the whole rabbit hole of like handwriting analysis, if I see that and people move, the red flag goes up and said, Look, there's a lot of evidence, you can't trust them. So the funny thing was, not only was that helped my attorney, I said, Look, not only did he did write this, but he's a liar. Anyway. So you know, he's gonna lie in court. He's in trouble self up. It's, I thought it was it was double, a little forensic, a little psychology, and it helped the car dealership out. Yeah, this is pretty good. I mean, we can

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talk about I think, probably one more fundamental principle. And I really believe that especially as I'm getting older, right, I'm 46. Now as we're shooting this, and, you know, despite my general nature to not trust people buy, I think, in general,

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people want good. There are psychopaths and there are cheaters and people who do those kinds of things. But in general, most people are good, and I really believe that and, you know, I I've been disproven a few times. But most of the time, regardless of where I'm at, I'm always impressed with people's kindness, generosity.

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City, and honesty and in the most in most cases, unless people are undergoing trauma at that moment,

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unless people are undergoing some kind of traumatic life event, or there's something happening to them, that is impairing their better judgment. It makes sense evolutionarily. And also from the standpoint of game theory being everybody will do what's in their boat's own best interest, that people will generally not cheat, steal and lie. It does happen. And I think there's there's also something to that where you can hold it down with your own energy. Right. So there's one thing we often talk about martial arts and that, you know, now I'm really into Brazilian jujitsu before I was into Muay Thai, and G kind. I studied in Marina Del Rey with this guy named Dan Inosanto, who is one of Bruce Lee's prodigies, and his partner in the guy who's carrying on his legacy. And one of the things that we always talk about in martial arts is situational awareness, but also how you carry yourself in a situation. After I really immersed myself in martial arts at an early age, I noticed that people just don't mess with you. And I know that you've had a lot of experience in martial arts, and you see guys around, where you just know, don't mess with that guy. You might not know why. But it's one of those evolutionary triggers that you know that that looks like a guy who could carry himself well. And similarly, predators. I talked about this in one of my books about how you got to choose if you're going to be a predator or prey, there's no middle thing that you can be, you can change in different scenarios. But in general, you want to be in that position of being a predator, I don't mean it as being predatory, but that you want to be the lion, not the gazelle. And when you have that mindset of being the lion, not the gazelle, with that energy, and I use that word, I know it's woo-woo, and whatever, but I think most viewers will understand what I'm talking about. If you can project, that vibe, that energy of Don't mess with me, in your physical in the physical sense, projecting that people will not mess with you, the guy will come up around the corner, you know, hoping to rob somebody and he'll look at you and go, maybe I'll find a granny. Right. Or in a business dealing, it's the same thing. When you're in a business dealing and you project that air of I am together, I am in control of the situation. I know what's going on. But I am open and fair, people generally speaking will not mess with you. Now, if you come from a place of weakness,

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then it's a different story, then you may attract to yourself. All those people that are predatory, all those psychopaths. So the way you get around it is with the hacks that Bart showed you and that I've explained during this episode, is that you want to make sure that you have clarity, you want to make sure that you use all of the resources available to you. And I think Bart and I are coming from slightly different places of you know, how you start. And I think that's all fine, and it's good. And it doesn't matter that much. You have to go with what works for you. But at the end of the day, you want to really examine and pause, pause anytime that you can. And if you can take more time to make a decision unless you're going to lose an opportunity. And it's a true opportunity that you verified. Take that minute for a pause. And I really appreciate everything that you bring to the show Bart it's always fun to have you on with me. co-hosting the show. Bart if people want to learn more about you or get your books, how can people get in touch with you? I've got a pretty easy media guy to find you know so you can't hide I can't hide from you guys so Bart Baggett calm that'll lead you into the books. Um, I do I think if you want to grab a couple of books for free, go to get Bart's book calm. And follow me on Instagram. We're working on building an Instagram profile building those those those Facebook pages we have a newsletter goes on every week. And we'd love to have you on and remember to hit and bang that subscribe button because we want to build up our viewership not only in the platform, you're listening, but also on YouTube as well. So thank you and Shaheen, the same question goes to you. I know that you've got this Amazon course that all my friends are raging about. And it's called Amazon mastery. What's an easy way to get a look about it that's something I want to do? Yeah, all about the trust you guys. So if you want to turn that trust into influence and turn

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Influence into sales. That's what we teach all the time, how to create predictable recurring revenue systems that never fail. By selling on Amazon, guys, and gals, you know that Amazon has seen a huge wave of sales and it is continuing to grow everybody around you, your neighbors, your friends are getting everything on Amazon. And what most people don't know is that you can sell yourself on Amazon for a very low cost and Bart you know, we have a free course it's a one-hour crash course on how to succeed in the Amazon Marketplace. It's everything you need to know you don't need to spend $1 to learn how to sell on the Amazon Marketplace and we are offering that for free. Go to Shaheen Shan Comm. We will have the website in the show notes or FBA seller course com. Reach out to me through Shaheen Chan calm on the contact list. I do respond to every email directly. Sometimes it takes a few minutes for me to get back to you a few days I should say to get back to you. But I do get back to everybody. No call no email left unanswered. And we look forward to you. Please remember to chase excellence every day and live your best life.

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Everybody have a great weekend. Thanks for listening